Living Nature Q&A

Here are questions regarding Living Nature questions that Living Nature and ourselves have found answers to.  Enjoy!

Alcohol - Does Living Nature use alcohol in their products?

We do not use what is commonly called alcohol in any of our formulations. Isopropanol, butanol, ethanol, glycerol, methanol are examples of the alcohols which are used extensively in cosmetics, cleaners, aftershaves, bubble baths, shaving creams and mouth washes. These solvents strip the natural oils which protect our skin, causing drying out of the skin and can lead to skin problems and skin imbalance.

Alcohol - I noticed on your label you use an ingredient named Cetearyl alcohol- how is this not a damaging alcohol?

The reference to “alcohol” on our labels refers to the cetearyl wheat straw glycosides and cetearyl alcohol, and this is different to the harmful alcohols mentioned above.

Cetaryl alcohol is made from vegetable oil and joined to the wheat glycoside from the wheat straw, to make a very gentle and nourishing binder for the water and oil parts of our formulations. The wheat straw glycoside and cetearyl alcohol is extracted after seed heads have been removed from the wheat stalks.

We also love that it includes the pentose sugars essential for transporting active ingredients into our cells. It is a waxy substance resembling our own human sebum (oil on the skin), absorbs readily and is extremely nourishing and protecting on the skin, leaving that soft, smooth feeling (naturally).

Another important fact is it contains NO gluten and is grown locally in New Zealand and is GE free. It has no known toxicity.

Animal Friendly - If you don’t test your products on animals how do you test them?

Not only do we not agree with the ethical side of animal testing, we believe the science is also flawed as the DNA and make-up of animal skin is completely different to that of humans. So how do we test our products? - on ourselves of course! We first skin test on our wonderful willing team of over 50 staff. After this process, we have a consumer review panel that also provide feedback. All Living Nature formulations also contain only ingredients that are approved by BDIH (a German certification body of natural products).

Animal Friendly - What’s Living Nature’s view on animal testing and animal ingredients?

Living Nature, like many of our customers, do NOT support animal testing. You will notice on our packaging that we carry the ‘Cruelty Free’ certification, which certifies that none of our products or ingredients are animal tested.

Animal Friendly - Why is it important to avoid mineral products and animal products?

When you think about it, putting ingredients like collagen (from dead animals) onto your skin it can no way create the production of collagen in our skin tissue. The only way collagen can have an effect is by being injected under the epidermal layer. It then gradually breaks down over 6 months to a year and is removed through lymphatic system. Petro-chemically derived mineral oils and synthetically made mineral oils fixate the skin blocking pores and preventing it from breathing. They are often used because they are cheap and create a nice silky feeling on the skin – initial impression is they are working wonders, no such luck!

Anti-Aging - Does Living Nature offer any anti-aging products?

It is obvious that as we get older our skin will not be as smooth, wrinkle-free, toned or tight as it was when we were young. Poor lifestyle choices such as smoking, lack of sleep, stress, sun exposure and poor diet certainly impact the appearance and health of our skin. Genetics and the natural aging process – or rite of passage, that we all journey through clearly also has an affect on our skin. The most significant signs of these are wrinkles, spider veins, broken capillaries, hyper-pigmentation (brown spots) or leathery skin.

So when you ask us for an anti-aging product, we say we don’t have one. No product can stop the aging process. Modern society is unduly focused on trying to remain young and attain the ever youthful appearance, when in fact we need to spend more time and energy investing in attain an ever youthful attitude! So there is no turning back the clock, but you can certainly take steps to reduce the effect of ageing on your skin. The best way to treat aging skin is to make healthy lifestyle choices. If this sounds simple, that’s because it is.

Firstly accepting the maturing of skin, and soul, instead of fighting it can certainly help our overall self-image and confidence. Drinking more water and taking on the Daily Body Massage as part of our Living Nature daily skin ritual is a great start. Be sure you have lots of essential fatty acids, adding a dessertspoon of flaxseed oil to smoothies or salad and vegetable dressing is a good internal lubricator! Excessive sun exposure means UV rays cause direct damage to both the surface of the skin and also the underlying support layers. Taking sensible sun care measures is certainly a priority. Smoking is a shocker for the skin. It is one of the most damaging things you can ever do. So don’t do it, don’t start and if you do it – stop! Eat well, indulge in all sorts of fruits and vegetables as these contain high amounts of antioxidant nutrients which are essential for healthy skin. The growing number of research also wholeheartedly supports that you should also only ever choose natural products, not only in your skincare but in every aspect of living – in your home, clothes, and food.

Anti-Aging - What products do you recommend for mature skin? And are there any specific products in the Living Nature range that help minimise the appearance of wrinkles?

Good skin care is essential at any age. Keep it simple and find a routine that suits your skin. We have created a wonderful nourishing range for mature skin. This deeply penetrating range will care for your skin by transporting hydrating Harakeke, anti-oxidizing Totora and moisturizing Manuka, to your skin and cells to ensure it feels smooth, soft and nourished on a daily basis. We have also created a number of unique products to retain and restore the delicate skin around the eyes, lips and neck – often the first visible signs of aging. Our Radiance Night Oil blends the wonders of Rosehip oil with herbs, oils and anti-oxidants to truly indulge skin as you sleep. Using products like Rosehip around the eye at night provides all the necessary nutrients and helps it stay soft and supple. Rose Hip is a plant oil. The more you massage fine oils into the skin, the more nutrients it has to stay supported and firm with fewer wrinkles.

In the day time we have a specialist eye product - our Firming Eye Cream plus we also recommend Firming Flax Serum which includes high quantities of moisture carrying Harakeke to help support the skin tissue preventing bagginess and wrinkles.

Baby Products - What Living Nature products would you recommend for my baby and toddler?

Living Nature's new Mother & Baby range is specifically for the delicate skin needs of babies and toddlers, and the special needs of Mums. We also recommend:

For a natural antiseptic - NEW Rescue gel replaces Manuka Oil & Honey Antiseptic Gel is a light gel containing unique New Zealand manuka oil and honey which is renowned for its anti-septic and anti-bacterial properties. Combined with New Zealand flax this amazing gel offers soothing and protection to your baby's skin, especially helpful on irritated nappy rashes. It is also a must-have for your first aid kit and the car as relief and protection from toddler cuts, abrasions, bites etc.

'Best Before' Date - what is the shelf life and how do I read the date?

Living Nature products contain only 100% natural ingredients, fragrances and preservatives, so they have a shorter shelf life than products containing synthetic preservatives. All Living Nature skincare products display a 'best before' date, which is usually 2 years. To keep the natural plant extracts in Living Nature products effective, we recommend they are stored in a cool place, away from direct sunlight.

A Best Before & Batch Date reading APR 11 090477, means the product is Best Before April 2011, and its batch date is 090477. All Living Nature products are tracked by their batch date.

While our products are naturally preserved, they are well preserved. A Best Before date is different to “expiry, ie they may still be suitable for use provided they have been stored correctly. Our products demonstrate that when nature finds its balance it can maintain this balance for a very long time.

Chemicals in baby products - why should I be concerned about chemicals in baby products, and look for truly natural skincare products for my baby?

There is a growing body of research indicating potential harm to babies and children from chemicals used as ingredients and preservatives in baby products.

When you buy Living Nature, you can trust that our skincare contains absolutely no synthetic ingredients or preservatives.

Here is what the Environmental Working Group's Cosmetic Safety Database (www.ewg.org) reveals about chemical exposure from baby products -

Children are not little adults. Their small, developing bodies receive greater exposures by weight than adults to contaminants in air, water, food, and everyday products. In addition, their immature metabolism and organ systems are typically less capable of fending off chemical assaults. And subtle damage to developing bodies that does not trigger immediate health effects may lead to disease later in life.

In its recently updated cancer risk guidelines, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) explicitly acknowledges the importance of childhood exposures. The Agency concluded, after a review of 23 studies of early life exposures to cancer-causing chemicals, that carcinogens are typically 10 times more potent for babies than for adults, and that some chemicals are up to 65 times more powerful (EPA 2005). Despite these and other well-documented concerns regarding children's sensitivity to harmful substances, no special protections exist regarding ingredients in personal care products marketed for babies and children.

Reasons for children's increased vulnerability to chemicals

According to the National Academy of Sciences, several factors contribute to children's exceptional vulnerability to the harmful effects of chemicals (NAS 1993):

- A child's chemical exposures are greater pound-for-pound than those of an adult. - Children are less able than adults to detoxify and excrete chemicals. - Children's developing organ systems are more vulnerable to damage from chemical exposures. - Children have more years of future life in which to develop disease triggered by early exposure.

Consider the skin. Studies confirm what any parent knows: an infant's skin is soft and delicate (Fluhr 2000; Giusti 2001). Infant skin is also considerably thinner than adult skin; in fact, the thickness of children's skin increases linearly with age, typically reaching a maximum at age 20 (Tan 1982). The thin skin of a newborn may well be more permeable to specific chemicals than the skin of an adult. Compounding this fact, the surface area of a child's skin relative to body weight is greater than adults, such that the potential dose of a chemical following dermal exposure is likely to be about 3 times greater in infants than in adults (West 1981; Clewell 2002).

Babies and children thus receive far greater exposures than adults to ingredients in personal care products slathered on their skin. Sensitivity to many chemicals in children's care products causes eczema (Katelaris 2006), and may produce more subtle damage later in life. Exposures to industrial chemicals may prime children for adult diseases (NAS 1993; EPA 2005), just as a few severe sunburns during childhood doubles the likelihood of developing malignant melanoma later in life (Oliveria 2006).

A recent review by government scientists of the "critical windows" of vulnerability reveals an urgent need for public health policies that recognize childhood sensitivity (Selevan 2000). Scientists have developed a much fuller understanding of children's vulnerability to chemicals, discovering links between a host of health problems - including asthma, childhood cancer, and brain damage - and such common contaminants as solvents, pesticides, PCBs, and lead (Trasande 2004). A recent National Academy of Sciences study suggests that environmental factors contribute to at least 28% of childhood developmental disabilities (NAS 2000). As a whole, these windows facilitate more pronounced risks and effects for chemical exposures in childhood than adulthood.

But health and environmental officials have been slow to act on the wealth of studies on childhood vulnerability produced in the past 20 years. EPA required nearly a decade of review to update its cancer risk guidelines in 2003, finally conceding the importance of childhood exposures (EPA 2005). The new policy targets only cancer, leaving EPA with no formal policy regarding childrens' vulnerability to chemicals that damage the immune system, the brain, the hormone system, or a host of other potential targets, despite evidence that children face higher risks for harm.

Health trends of concern

Analysis of our survey data revealed that children are exposed to many ingredients linked to health effects of particular concern:

- 82% of children are exposed to one or more known human neurotoxins every week through their use of personal care products. Growth and development of the brain continues for many years after birth, leaving infants and young children uniquely sensitive to the effects of neurotoxic agents; in particular, the blood-brain barrier, which can protect the brain from many toxic chemicals, is not fully formed until a child is 6 months old (Grandjean 2006). Examples of neurotoxins in children's products include benzyl and isopropyl alcohols. Although limits have been set for these chemicals in food (FDA 2007), no mandatory limits are in place for cosmetics. The cosmetic industry safety panel found that the safety of benzyl alcohol in products that may be inhaled is unknown, and has not reviewed the safety of isopropyl alcohol. Survey findings show that products that may be used by children contain 82 neurotoxic chemicals altogether, raising particular concerns in light of recent warnings of evidence suggesting that developmental disabilities stemming from neurotoxic chemicals like those in children's products can be considered a "silent pandemic in modern society" (Grandjean 2006). Potentially neurotoxic agents with more limited toxicity data that are common in children's products include the preservative methylisothiazolinone, which was found to damage developing neurons in a study that exposed rat brain cells repeatedly to very low levels of this substance (He 2006), raising concerns with respect to children's exposures as well.

- 69% of children are exposed to one or more ingredients that can disrupt the hormone system every week through their use of personal care products. These ingredients include estrogen mimics called parabens, preservatives to which 91% of children are exposed according to our survey, and triclosan, a common antimicrobial chemical in liquid hand soap that can easily absorb into the body (Wolff 2007) and that preliminary studies show can disrupt thyroid growth hormones. Exposures to hormonally active chemicals are a particular concern considering some current health trends of significance in the U.S. population. For instance, 1 in 8 females in the U.S. will develop breast cancer in her lifetime, and risks are increased by exposures to estrogenic chemicals. Exposures to hormonally active chemicals may influence time to puberty; over the last 4 decades, the age at which girls in the U.S. begin menstruating has declined by a few months, while the age at which girls begin to develop breasts has declined by 1 to 2 years (Steingraber 2007). Additionally, a survey of 25,862 Americans that found over 10% of the population to have abnormal thyroid function (Canaris 2000) raises concerns with respect to children's widespread exposures to thyroid-disrupting chemicals in personal care products.

- 3.6% of children are exposed to one or more ingredients designated as known or probable human carcinogens by government health agencies, including coal tar in skin treatment shampoos, BHA in diaper cream, and silica in powders. Increasing rates of many childhood cancers, including leukemia, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, and specific brain and nervous system cancers (Ries 2007), provide a clear cause for alarm regarding exposure of babies and children to chemicals linked to cancer

Choosing the right Living Nature Products - How can I get advice on which Living Nature products are most suited for my skin?

Living Nature is a prescriptive brand, and as such we recommend a range of products for different skin types. It is easy to shop online by skin type and you can also download a personalized 4-step skincare programme suited to your skin needs. We also recommend you read all product descriptions carefully, where you can find full details about product benefits, ingredients, and usage, and some products also include responses and recommendations from other customers.

Choosing the right Living Nature products - If I have sensitive skin, how can I be sure your products won’t have any adverse affects?

We always advise you to carry out patch test prior to use of any new products. The way to do this, is to apply a small amount on your inner arm (close to the elbow). You can cover this with a dry plaster to keep it in place. Apply the product twice a day for 3 days. If no reaction is present, we then recommend applying a small amount behind the ear (or under the chin) in the same way for approximately 3 days, prior to introducing it onto your face.

Choosing the right Living Nature products - Once I start using Living Nature, can I expect any initial changes in my skin?

Often our first time users of Living Nature may experience some changes in their skin. Skin can shed, feel a little itchy, or rub off, but do not be too alarmed. This is not necessarily a reaction to Living Nature but rather your skin detoxifying from the previous use of mineral based oils and synthetic ingredients which cake the skin. Living Nature’s natural ingredients act like a poultice, drawing the toxins and petroleum out of the skins epidermis. If the reaction is not painful, uncomfortable, or embarrassing we recommend you persevere with the skincare ritual for 28 days, mirroring and supporting the skin's natural cycle of regeneration. At the end of the month we are confident you will have nothing but a healthy, balanced and beautiful complexion.

Gluten - Do Living Nature products contain gluten?

No - Living Nature products are all gluten-free.

Manuka Oil & Honey Antiseptic Gel - what has happened to this product?

This fantastic product has now been repackaged as Rescue Gel - it is available in a handy 10ml purse size (great for spots), and in a 50ml size for the bathroom cupboard or first aid kit.

Men's Skincare - Does Living Nature offer a men’s range?

Yes Living Nature’s For Men skincare range was relaunched in 2006 and the extensive range provides a natural alternative with a fresh, herbal and spicy scent. View the full men’s range here.

Men's Skincare - How is men’s skin different to women’s?

Men have an advantage when it comes to skin – and it’s testosterone that makes the difference! Men’s skin is about 25% thicker than women’s and it is often oilier and tougher too, with more collagen and elastin support. Regular shaving provides a natural exfoliation removing dead skin cells, which can help to keep men’s skin looking fresh and vibrant.

Natural Ingredients - How can I be sure I'm buying a natural brand?

To be sure you are getting truly natural skincare, healthcare products, food supplements and personal-hygiene products you should look for the mark of a natural certification such as BDIH, the Association of German Industries and Trading Firms. BDIH only certify 'safe' and 'green' products and do not allow any of the unsafe synthetic ingredients now commonly found in many personal care products.

Natural Ingredients - There are many brands claiming to be natural, just how natural is Living Nature?

Living Nature skincare contains only 100% natural ingredients, preservatives and fragrances, and this is certified to the world's highest standards by BDIH Germany.

Cosmetic ingredients are virtually unregulated and while many products claim to be ‘natural’, the absence of any regulating body means that there are different levels of natural available in the market. In fact many "natural skincare" products available in the market contain only small amounts of natural extracts added to a chemical or synthetic base.

Unfortunately, when these extracts are suspended in a chemical synthetic base, any real enzyme activity the plant extract might have had is totally lost. The problem is compounded when we consider that we are exposing ourselves to potentially harmful ingredients in the form of synthetic bases.

Other ranges may produce a high-quality product with high levels of natural ingredients but still contain some ingredients that you may want to avoid.

Living Nature is considered one of the worlds leading 'Ethically Natural' skincare brands. Living Nature products contain no artificial chemicals or synthetic preservatives, blending science and nature together to create a natural, highly potent, botanical product.

Natural Ingredients - What are the unique plant ingredients in your skincare products?

There are over 80 plant ingredients crafted in our formulations, making naturally occurring nutrients, vitamins, amino acids, minerals, anti-oxidants available to your skin, but the key ingredients – our ‘hero ingredients’ are: Harakeke for its skin soothing and hydrating properties and its our natural alternative to petrochemically derived carrier gels; Kumerahou our natural surfactant to cleanse and purify; Manuka Honey our extraordinary moisturizing, nourishing, healing, rejuvenating, protecting humectant; Manuka Oil for it’s antibacterial, anti-fungal and anti-inflamatory properties; Halloysite Clay for its remarkable ability to absorb toxins and impurities from the skin; Totarol for its anti-oxidant activity; and Kelp for its rich nourishing nutrients. Find out why, how and where they are used here.

Natural Ingredients - What makes Living Nature’s ingredients so unique?

New Zealand was once part of the ancient southern landmass, Gondwana, and has been geographically isolated for more than 80 million years, in which time a unique flora evolved. Over 80% of New Zealand’s plants are found nowhere else in the world. It is these rare plants that form the basis of the Living Nature skincare, body care and cosmetic collections. Living Nature utilizes these unique plant nutrients in our products to provide these benefits directly to your skin.

Natural Ingredients - Why does Living Nature believe it is so important to only use natural ingredients?

The human body has developed over hundreds of thousands of years in tune with nature and the environment - plants in particular have been a major source of nutrients and vitamins. Our bodies have evolved systems to extract these nutrients from plant material and utilizes them to nourish and grow our bodies and maintain our health and wellbeing. Over the last 150 years there have been thousands of man-made synthetic ingredients developed to imitate, change and control nature or natural processes; many of which the effects have not been thoroughly evaluated over time. These synthetic substances are now the subject of extensive research world wide and there is growing concern and evidence that they may not be so good for our health. We are convinced that better understanding of these chemicals and the potential threats to our health, will lead to more and more people around the world, choosing a more natural lifestyle.

Nut Oils - Do Living Nature lipsticks contain nut oils?

No - Living Nature lipsticks do not contain any nut oils.

Organic Certification - Does Living Nature use organic ingredients?

The Living Nature range is 100% derived from nature and where possible we use organic ingredients in our products. As many of our ingredients wild harvested, they can not, at this stage, be certified organic. Wild harvesting is however a process the certifying bodies are now recognizing, which may result in a form of certification in the future.

We do take every possible step to ensure our products are as safe and natural as we claim. We have a supplier policy in place to ensure our suppliers test the ingredients supplied to us and conform to the same high standards as Living Nature, i.e. GE free, no animal testing, no herbicide or pesticide residues, sustainable plant resources with no environmental impact, committed to recycling, and where possible, certified organic.

Living Nature is proud to offer one of the most natural skincare and cosmetic ranges in the world and will continue to develop our organic policy and subsequent product offering over time.

Packaging - Is Living Nature’s packaging environmentally friendly and recyclable?

Living Nature's packaging is 100% recyclable.

Card for our cartons is sourced from renewable forests and contains no toxins or chlorine bleach.

Our packaging also contains a natural ingredient, 15% Calcium carbonate (Chalk) that when combined with polypropylene reduces energy and plastic used in manufacture. The opaque finish that this provides assists in reducing the exposure of our products to light also.

As Living Nature's new packaging is made of the same material (caps and bottles) it can be recycled without disassembly.

Packaging - Why are some of your products dispensed upside down?

The natural ingredients in our products and the lack of synthetic preservatives, such as parabens has meant we have had to take extra precautions to protect our products from exposure to the air. Our solution was a positively charged dispensing system (cap on the bottom of the product) which limits the amount of air that the product is exposed to, eliminates the need for complex pumps that can't be recycled, and ensures that the last drops of product are easily available to our customers.

Parabens - I have heard Living Nature does not use Parabens, why is this?

Synthetic preservatives and synthetic parabens are something that Living Nature chooses not to use in our products. Parabens are the subject of extensive research world wide and there is growing concern and evidence that they may be ‘endocrine disrupting chemicals’. >>>>>>

Living Nature chooses to remain paraben free, preferring the safety of our natural plant based preservative system. We have highlighted a few independent research bodies on our site that are worth a read, or alternatively we suggest you conduct your own research on the web by typing in ‘endocrine disrupting chemicals’ or Parabens into the Google search engine. We are convinced that better understanding of these chemicals and the potential threats to our health, will lead to more and more people around the world, choosing a more natural lifestyle.

Parabens - If you don’t use parabens in your products, how do you preserve them?

Living Nature uses a world-first natural plant-based preservative system. This synergy of potent plant extracts combines unique and medicinal native New Zealand plants which are strong antioxidants, bactericides and fungicides. Living Nature products are formulated to be free of synthetic chemicals or preservatives. Our products are manufactured to the BDIH compliance standard, which is a Germany certification body of natural skin care companies.

Pregnancy - Are there any restrictions for using Living Nature products when pregnant or on medication?

Most of Living Nature's products are safe for use during pregnancy with the exception of Energy Body Oil (contains essential oil of Clary Sage) However you should always consult your doctor before use if you have a specific medical condition and if you have a known allergy to certain ingredients, we would always advise you to carry out patch testing prior to use of any new products.

Product efficacy - How can I be sure that Living Nature products do what you claim?

There are many different ways to test products at various levels, and within the skincare and cosmetic industry many corporations use different research to promote and sell their products. Customer testimonials (anecdotal research), monitored customer trials and case studies, laboratory testing of raw materials, and laboratory testing of finished products are the most common. Our ingredients are the essence of over 80 unique medicinal plants, carefully extracted to maintain their strength and integrity. Extensive research is carried out on all our ingredients and final formulations to ensure maximum skin efficacy and safety. Our products are manufactured to the BDIH compliance standard, which is a Germany certification body of natural skin care companies http://www.kontrollierte-naturkosmetick.de/. In addition to this, Industrial Research Limited, (a government agency) carry out an audit on all our ingredients, ensuring they are synthetic and chemical free. Living Nature has received literally thousands of customer testimonials in support and praise of products for the relief of many skin conditions and the enhancement of beautiful, natural skin. We welcome you to view their feedback here. We are also currently testing our products at Abich Laboratories in Italy, one of the world’s leading skin institutes. This research will be available soon and will show the measured results of how our products repair and restore human skin cells over time. We will keep you updated on the results.

Samples - Is there a trial pack/size that I can try before I commit to purchasing full size products?

We have a selection of travel sized products that would be suitable for you to trial the skincare range. Our Skin Essentials packs package the three core products of your daily facial ritual – cleanser, hydrating gel, day cream; and include a number of trial masks for you to enjoy at home. You can choose from Oily, Dry/Mature, Combination and Mens skin packs, plus a Body Essentials pack.

Soothing EPO & Manuka Honey Gel - what has happened to this product?

This popular product has been repackaged into our Mother & Baby range as Sensitive Bits Gel. It is great for babies' skin irritations, but also a fantastic product for big people. Please note that our Mother & Baby Range is not available in all markets.

Sunfilter - Does Living Nature offer a natural sunscreen?

Yes, Living Nature offers the Daily Defence SPF15 Lotion which uses Zinc Oxide to protect and block against UVA and UVB rays. It has a certified rating of SPF 15 and can be worn over or under makeup. Note the product is not waterproof and frequent application and other sun filtering precautions such as shade, hats, clothing and staying out of the sun at peak times are recommended.

Talc - I have read articles that there is evidence linking talc to cancer. Can you advise why you use talc in some of your make-up products such your powders, eyeshadows and lip/eye liners?

Talc is hydrated magnesium silicate. Living Nature uses the purest available and certified asbestos free. Further to this we sterilize it to ensure a high level of hygiene and that there are no pathogens. Talc, as with all powders (rice and corn included) creates a problem if inhaled into the lungs in their dry form. Once a powder is ‘bound’ with oils, this is no longer an issue. Living Nature powders do contain oils and emulsifiers that provide this binding.

WHAT IS THE VITAMIN E DERIVED FROM?